On July 9, city leaders in Duluth proposed ten ordinance changes that officials say will solve frequently reported non-violent offenses. Members of the community have gathered at City Council meetings, and sent emails to City Hall to voice their opinions on the proposed ordinances. There has been strong reactions to the plan.

On Wednesday, Duluth Mayor Roger Reinert, Police Chief Mike Ceynowa and Fire Chief Shawn Krizaj sat down for a candid conversation with Good Morning Northland’s Nyah Adams.

The first reading of the ten ordinances was held on Monday, July 15. The ordinances aim to reduce what Mayor Reinert called “Problem behaviors, the non-violent crimes like graffiti, property damage, and public camping. The proposal would alter city code to make these misdemeanors, replacing fines in some cases – something that the mayor admits hasn’t worked in the past.

One hot topic that residents question focuses on camping on public grounds. Some believe this ordinance criminalizes homelessness.

Mayor Roger Reinert says city leaders had conversations with Chum and other providers prior to the reading of the ordinance regarding need for places for people in need.

“I’ll acknowledge we didn’t talk to everybody we potentially could, and part of that is process,” Mayor Reinert said. “The job of the administration, the attorney with our subject matter experts, is to introduce those ordinances. And that’s the start of the conversation, which clearly we’re engaged in now,” Mayor Reinert said. “It’s one of the reasons you have two readings of an ordinance to give that time and space.”

Mayor Reinert says they had a good conversation on Monday, July 15 with about 12 different organizations that help with homelessness. He says they are open to changes.

“Where we’re trying to get is that balance of both, reaching out and caring about those in our community that are on the margins, but also the public safety issues.” Reinert said. “We’ve seen a tough 24 hours and there are the things that we hear from our residents. So, when you look at the proposed package of changes, these are the things people most often call about. Quality of life issues in their neighborhoods, and the things that our firefighters and police officers most often experience when they’re out there protecting and serving.”

Duluth Police Chief Mike Ceynowa says they have a really good relationship with the service providers, like Chum, and that both city leaders and members of the service community have shared places on each others boards to promote discussion and promote transparency.

“While the ordinance currently exists in city code, that particular piece is, you know, a large change for them, which obviously brings concern for people,” Chief Ceynowa said. “But they are routinely involved as we deal with encampment situations or people in crisis, or in substance use spaces.”

In the conversation prior to the City Council meeting on Monday, Councilor Azrin Awal told WDIO it costs more to put someone in a jail cell than it costs to provide a room or housing. Nyah asked “What is the city doing to bring more affordable housing to address this?”

“You know, we tend to think of Duluth issues as ‘city’ of Duluth issues, and they’re not the same. You know, we are local government and we really have three lanes. It’s streets, utilities and public safety. We don’t have a city Department of Health and Human Services. We count on those partners to be in that space,” Mayor Reinert said.

Mayor Reinert adds that the county and state have Health and Human Service departments.

“The city has public safety. So for us, public safety is about meeting resident expectations. And we choose in Duluth to also use that both in police and in fire and life safety as a connection in a gateway to help connect people to their resources,” he said. “But I’d also note in just the last handful of years, the city has spent almost $17 million on affordable housing and homeless support. So, it’s not like the city has not been an active partner in this space also financially, even when we have a limited tax base and we have other needs.”

Mayor Reinert points to how our streets and utilities also need attention.

The county plays a big role in this issue as well. Nyah asked whether the county is providing any support for affordable housing or providing input on the ordinance change?

Mayor Reinert says there was a county social worker and a county commissioner at the meeting on Monday.

“That city, county and again, the state relationship is critical because as we try to find those financial resources, especially as ARPA dollars and COVID dollars go away. It’s just the city’s fiscal resources are limited,” Reinert said.

Duluth Fire Chief Shawn Krizaj says it is important to reiterate that these ordinances have been on the books for years. He says this will not change the process of how public safety will handle things. He says there is a team that works together on encampment issues.

“We’ve been meeting for probably a year and a half or more because not all the issues are on Duluth City property. Some is on county land or tax forfeit land. Some is on MnDOT Property,” Chief Krizaj says. “So we have a team that meets every Monday or every other Monday, depending on the week to discuss where we’re having some issues, whose property that on, who’s responsible for it.”

He says it’s a week-long process before going out to the area.

“We don’t just go in and move people immediately. We have our partners from HDC and Chum go with us to help build that trust, make those connections with people, and hopefully get them to a better place, get resources they may need,” Chief Krizaj said. “So this really has been a project that’s not just focused on city, city administration and city resources. We have a team that’s been working on this for years. And I think moving forward, we’re just hoping that these changes help us, give us some extra tools, give us some extra options and give us a place where we can put people into a better situation.”

In regards to law enforcement and enforcing the ordinances, Mayor Reinert said to look at the history.

“The history of our public safety team has been very progressive, has been very engaging. Both police and fire have staff who work just as outreach. And again, when you think of what is the city’s primary role, our core city services, it’s not in there. So, that’s a choice that we make on how we spend taxpayer dollars.”

Chief Ceynowa says they are oftentimes seeing people who voluntarily comply, who want to get help.

“We are out there building trust with both our sworn staff and our professional staff. We work in our core unit and our substance use response team,” Chief Ceynowa said. Ceynowa says that there are some repeat offenders or behaviors that make us all feel unsafe in our community. He says it feels like this is “the one one ingredient that’s missing.”

“For those people, we would like to be able to engage them at a much lower level of the criminal justice system and to use a very active city attorney’s office that, you know, now has the staffing to handle this type of diversion before we even go into a court system,” Ceynowa said.

Chief Ceynowa says his department is not doing what you may see in other cities, he says they play a small role with engagement of the homeless so everyone feels safe.

“We typically send one officer that’s embedded with the life safety team. So, I think that’s really what makes this different that we have put in all of these soft skills within our agency,” he says. He added that they have invested a lot into the department, putting focus on training with staff and encouraging officers to step in when something doesn’t seem right.

“But there are times where we do need to have that other tool, and sometimes that tool is a jail or another facility,” Ceynowa said.

Chief Krizaj says they continue to add staff and the city continues to move forward.

“We just added an actual position to life safety to focus on encampments and needle pickups and things like that. And then we’re starting a community Health Alliance which is a city wide program,” he said.

This is a project that involves all departments and people, including the mayor’s office, fire and police.

“These are the things that people most often, I know we’re focused on one, but it’s graffiti, it’s drug paraphernalia, it’s issues in the skywalk, issues in our parks, and it’s for illegal ATV usage,” Mayor Reinert says. “The reality is right now, our code only provides for an administrative citation and a fine, and then you have to get to a felony. So, a great example that I think everyone in our community can appreciate is we had a graffiti artist who tagged over 1000 things within our community and it wasn’t until we could aggregate those to be a felony offense that we really had an any tool for our law enforcement to use.”

WDIO News will continue to follow the discussion about the proposed ordinance changes in the coming weeks.